That’s Debatable!

Defining Islamophobia

In a special episode of That's Debatable, FSU founder and General Secretary Lord Young talks to Fiyaz Mughal, the founder of Tell MAMA and Faith Matters, about the government's determination to adopt an official definition of 'Islamophobia/Anti-Muslim Hatred' and the chilling effect it is likely to have on free speech.
That's Debatable is edited by Jason Clift

Rap, Research, Banter and Bans

Connie and Jan begin by discussing the furore arising from last week’s Glastonbury Festival, when rap duo Bob Vylan led a crowd of thousands in chanting ‘Death, death to the IDF’. Some commentators have demanded that police investigate the rapper for incitement to violence while others greeted his words as a morally impassioned politically justifiable performance. Many drew parallels with Lucy Connolly, imprisoned for 31 months for a tweet, and called for consistency in the treatment of Bob Vylan. However,  the FSU issued a very clear statement making the case for consistency that leans towards rather than away from free speech – in other words, neither Lucy Connolly nor the rapper should face criminal sanction. You can read our statement here and watch an interview between Toby Young and Ash Sarkar here.
Connie then introduces the second part of the Sullivan Review, a piece of research which catalogues the multifarious ways in which gender critical academics have had obstacles placed in the way of their research. One of those academics, Professor Jo Phoenix, wrote about the findings in the Critic.
The latest developments in the FSU’s campaign against ‘the banter ban’, as we’re describing Clause 20 of the Employment Rights Bill are then discussed and listeners are urged to make use of our campaigning tool to write to a member of the House of Lords in support of Lord Young’s amendments, which will be proposed on 14th July. For a live discussion about workers’ rights, you can come along to our event on Monday 14th July
Moving to a global perspective on free speech, Connie and Jan consider the findings of the Global Expression Report 2025, produced by  Article 19, which assesses the status of free expression and access to information across 161 countries. The report found a global decline in free expression and just as disturbingly, demoted the UK to a second-tier rank – lower than most other Western European countries. What dragged down our score was an increase in government censorship efforts (as opposed to restrictions on press freedom or on civil society organisations).
'That's Debatable' is edited by Jason Clift

Rainbow Refuseniks and other Religious Heretics

That’s Debatable! is the weekly podcast of the Free Speech Union. Hosts Lynsey Metcalfe and Jan MacVarish – both staffers at the FSU – talk about the free speech controversies that have erupted in the past week. Please like, subscribe and share.
Jan is joined this week by FSU Case Officer Lynsey Metcalfe. They discuss stories of more ‘rainbow refuseniks’ – in this case, two footballers who have been punished by the French footballing authorities for blacking out rainbow-related insignia on their kit – and Lynsey tells how the FSU caseload reflects similar instances of resistance to the Pride agenda, in particular amongst those of religious faith.
While the football examples involve players of various faiths, there is a strong perception at present that when professed by Christians, conservative beliefs are more likely to be policed than when others of different faiths say similar things. For example, research conducted by the FSU into the policing of street preachers seems to confirm this perception, with Christians found to be only faith group subjected to arrest, despite the researchers actively searching for cases involving other religion.
Finally, Lynsey and Jan consider the profoundly isolating effects of having to conceal one’s beliefs when others are invited to express theirs, in workplaces, institutions and other areas of life.
That's Debatable! is edited by Jason Clift

Do we need an 'Islamophobia' definition?

That’s Debatable!’ is the weekly podcast of the Free Speech Union. Hosts Connie Shaw and Jan MacVarish – both staffers at the FSU – talk about the free speech controversies that have erupted in the past week. Please like, subscribe and share.
This week Jan and Connie discuss the robust guidance issued by the Office for Students in relation to free speech, and the Higher Education (Freedom of Speech) Act 2023 which comes into force on 1 August this year. The Office for Students accepted the FSU's recommendation that all legal speech should be protected at universities and that legal speech should not be regulated at all. It should change the culture at universities, with students told to be ready to be shocked and offended.
Also discussed is the new working group set up by the government to establish a non-statutory definition of 'Islamophobia'. A call for evidence was issued on the same day that Baroness Casey’s National Audit on Group-based Child Exploitation was published and Yvette Cooper made a statement on the national inquiry into grooming gangs. The issue has long been suppressed as an allegedly racist or Islamophobic dog whistle, including by a 2018 All-Party Parliamentary Group (APPG) report which established a definition that the Labour Party adopted. The chair of the new working group, Dominic Grieve, wrote the forward and welcomed the findings of the 2018 APPG report. The Free Speech Union has not been asked to give evidence.
In similar news, they discuss the amendment tabled by Nick Timothy MP to the Crime and Policing Bill 2024-25 designed to secure the freedom to criticise religion by extending the free speech protections of the Public Order Act 1986.
Office for Students guidance https://www.officeforstudents.org.uk/news-blog-and-events/press-and-media/ofs-publishes-free-speech-guidance-as-polling-shows-one-in-five-academics-do-not-feel-free-to-teach-controversial-views/#:~:text='This%20guidance%20emphasises%20that%20freedom,can't%20ban%20ideas.'
John Jenkins’ article 'Has the Islamophobia 'Working Group' already made up its mind?’ https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/has-the-islamophobia-working-group-of-mps-already-made-up-its-mind/ 
Politics Home reports on the questions being asked by the Islamphobia working group https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/government-seeks-input-including-racism-islamophobia-definition 
Freddie Attenborough article ''Islamophobia' and the grooming gangs scandal' https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/islamophobia-and-the-grooming-gangs-scandal/
Freddie Attenborough article 'The grooming gangs scandal shows the importance of free speech' https://thecritic.co.uk/the-grooming-gangs-scandal-shows-the-importance-of-free-speech/?mc_cid=c6de95ce3d&mc_eid=2190e49a54
Exchange between MPs Jess Phillips, Shockat Adam and Nick Timothy https://x.com/nj_timothy/status/1935738036983042508?s=46&t=YZKdwC8hdWThZq-sxVV0Fw
That's Debatable is edited by Jason Clift

In Defence of Banter and Books

That’s Debatable!’ is the weekly podcast of the Free Speech Union. Hosts Tom Harris and Jan MacVarish – both staffers at the FSU – talk about the free speech controversies that have erupted in the past week. Please like, subscribe and share.
In this week’s episode, Jan Macvarish and Connie Shaw discuss the FSU’s campaign against the ‘banter ban’. Connie describes legislative reforms that are being proposed as part of the government’s Employment Rights Bill and the problems the FSU has identified with them for free speech. FSU General Secretary addressed the audience at last week’s Comedy Unleashed gig and interviewed comedians including Andrew Doyle, Josh Howie and Francis Foster, about the prospect of ‘banter bouncers’ in venues, clubs and pubs. You can find out more and watch the video here.
Toby also appeared on Sunday’s Free Speech Nation (around 1 hour 35 minutes in) to discuss the bill with Andrew Doyle. Connie encourages viewers and listeners to use our special online tool to alert members of the House of Lords to the dangers of the Bill and to encourage them to support Lord Young’s amendments. It’s not just the FSU that has identified problems - the Equality and Human Rights Commission (EHRC) has also warned of the ‘risk of unintended consequences’ and counselled the need to ‘balance…rights to freedom from harassment and freedom of expression’. You can read their briefing  here.
Connie then introduces a news story she spotted about a US school-teacher who has been threatened with the sack for reading an unedited passage of To Kill A Mockingbird to pupils. She and Jan discuss how children need to be able to understand the context in which words gain their power and the role of teachers in guiding them through linguistic taboos that have changed over time. They then go on to talk about Ray Bradbury’s dystopian novel Fahrenheit 451, written in 1953, which imagines a future America where books are banned and destroyed by fire. The novel explores the impact on memory, imagination and the ability to think and experience emotion that this has.
And finally, they return to the ‘banter’ question with an article reporting that a university researcher went undercover at his own golf club to analyse how jokes, innuendo and laddish banter forged a bonded but potentially exclusionary culture amongst golfers. The story raises questions about freedom of association, the role of humour in human relationships and research ethics.
Edited by Jason Clift

Connie’s Campus Strife

That’s Debatable!’ is the weekly podcast of the Free Speech Union. Hosts Tom Harris and Jan MacVarish – both staffers at the FSU – talk about the free speech controversies that have erupted in the past week. Please like, subscribe and share.
In this week’s episode, Jan Macvarish and Connie Shaw discuss the FSU’s campaign against the ‘banter ban’. Connie describes legislative reforms that are being proposed as part of the government’s Employment Rights Bill and the problems the FSU has identified with them for free speech. FSU General Secretary addressed the audience at last week’s Comedy Unleashed gig and interviewed comedians including Andrew Doyle, Josh Howie and Francis Foster, about the prospect of ‘banter bouncers’ in venues, clubs and pubs. You can find out more and watch the video here.
Toby also appeared on Sunday’s Free Speech Nation (around 1 hour 35 minutes in) to discuss the bill with Andrew Doyle. Connie encourages viewers and listeners to use our special online tool to alert members of the House of Lords to the dangers of the Bill and to encourage them to support Lord Young’s amendments. It’s not just the FSU that has identified problems - the Equality and Human Rights Commission (EHRC) has also warned of the ‘risk of unintended consequences’ and counselled the need to ‘balance…rights to freedom from harassment and freedom of expression’. You can read their briefing  here.
Connie then introduces a news story she spotted about a US school-teacher who has been threatened with the sack for reading an unedited passage of To Kill A Mockingbird to pupils. She and Jan discuss how children need to be able to understand the context in which words gain their power and the role of teachers in guiding them through linguistic taboos that have changed over time. They then go on to talk about Ray Bradbury’s dystopian novel Fahrenheit 451, written in 1953, which imagines a future America where books are banned and destroyed by fire. The novel explores the impact on memory, imagination and the ability to think and experience emotion that this has.
And finally, they return to the ‘banter’ question with an article reporting that a university researcher went undercover at his own golf club to analyse how jokes, innuendo and laddish banter forged a bonded but potentially exclusionary culture amongst golfers. The story raises questions about freedom of association, the role of humour in human relationships and research ethics.
Edited by Jason Clift

Classroom Battles

That’s Debatable!’ is the weekly podcast of the Free Speech Union. Hosts Tom Harris and Jan MacVarish – both staffers at the FSU – talk about the free speech controversies that have erupted in the past week. Please like, subscribe and share.
This week, the Free Speech Union’s Education and Events Director Jan Macvarish takes the steering wheel as Tom Harris is away. She is joined by the Free Speech Union’s Case Management Officer Lynsey Metcalfe to discuss some research Lynsey is conducting into the free speech issues that arise in schools. It will be published in the coming months on the FSU website.
Lynsey and Jan also refer to last week’s book launch for Andrew Doyle’s The End of Woke, the video of which has already been watched thousands of times and can be viewed here.
A video from the FSU/Women’s Rights Network event held last weekend in Manchester with Akua Reindorf KC that is also mentioned will be posted on our You Tube channel by the end of the week.
That's Debatable!’ is edited by Jason Clift.

Police Our Streets Not Our Tweets

With the FSU’s backing, Lucy Connolly, jailed for a tweet about migrants that she posted following the Southport murders, has been fighting her 31-month sentence in the Court of Appeal. Although a verdict was expected on Thursday when the hearing concluded, the Court will now be providing a written judgement, somewhat vaguely scheduled for “as soon as possible”. Allison Pearson has written a powerful piece about the ongoing saga in the Telegraph. A member of the FSU’s legal advisory council, Andrew Tettenborn, has written in Spiked about the European Commission’s threat to bring legal proceedings against Ireland for allegedly failing to comply with a 2008 framework decision that seeks to criminalise Holocaust denial or trivialisation of the Holocaust or other crimes against humanity. As Andrew points out, Ireland has had hate speech laws of its own since 1989 and even imposed a law last year that increases the length of prison sentences for certain crimes that are proved to be motivated by hate. We end today’s episode with a discussion around Helen Joyce’s recent appearance on BBC Woman’s Hour.
‘That's Debatable!’  is edited by Jason Clift.

Licence to Offend

Julian Foulkes, a retired Special Constable, was arrested and held in a cell for eight hours over a tweet warning about the threat to British Jews posed by the pro-Palestinian marches. In October of 2023, he responded to another tweet criticising Suella Braverman for describing the pro-Palestinian protests that were sweeping the country in the aftermath of the massacre in Southern Israel as ‘hate marches’. As reported in the Telegraph, the day after someone complained about Julian’s tweet, six police officers turned up at his home, ransacked the premises, arrested him, detained him for eight hours and gave him a caution. Julian retained the services of a solicitor and, with his help, got Kent Police to admit they’d made a mistake and delete the caution from his record. Julian, who has now joined the Free Speech Union, is now going to sue the force for wrongful arrest, as well as unlawful interference in his right to liberty. You can contribute to Julian’s crowdfunder here. We move on to discuss two ways in which the FSU has stepped in to help with free expression events: the Lewes Speakers Festival on Friday 9th May and the re-platforming of the ‘Licence to Offend’ cartoon exhibition. There is good news to report in the world of football where Cerys Vaughan has spoken out about her Kafkaesque trial after asking a transgender opponent: “Are you a man?”. Following a three-month battle, an appeal board of the FA quashed the ruling against her in a damning – and alarming – judgment on the original proceedings. As reported in the Telegraph, the written reasons state: she had not received a fair hearing during a three-hour video call that left her in tears; proper consideration had not been given to her age or the evidence against her; and she was wrongly found guilty “by own admission” when she had denied the charges. We end with an update on our event with Andrew Doyle on the 29th May, which is now both in-person and online.
‘That's Debatable!’  is edited by Jason Clift.

Journalism in the Dock

According to College of Policing guidance, Non-Crime Hate Incidents (NCHIs) help forces build an intelligence picture of community tensions and understand where they need to allocate resources for prevention. Indeed, during a House of Lords debate in November 2024, Lord Hanson, the Home Office minister, told peers: “It is vital that the police monitor non-crime hate incidents when proportionate and necessary to do so to help prevent serious crimes”. However, the Telegraph reports that freedom of information requests submitted to police by Harry Miller, the founder of Fair Cop, revealed that many of the biggest forces, including the Met, Greater Manchester and West Midlands do not actually analyse the NCHI data they collect. Meanwhile, the Conservatives are tabling an amendment to the Crime and Policing Bill to abolish non-crime hate incidents. FSU members can use our Campaigns tool to write to their MPs to urge them to vote for this amendment. In our next item, we discuss the barring of Renaud Camus, a French philosopher, from entering the UK due to his controversial views on immigration. Lord Young is quoted in the Telegraph, “We’ve reached out to him to see if he’d like any help in appealing this decision, and he said yes. So I anticipate that we are going to be getting an immigration lawyer on the case”. He adds, “I don’t think that the common good is endangered by inviting people to set out their contentious views in the public square, particularly not someone as distinguished as Mr Camus”. We end with a brief discussion on a new FSU briefing paper written by Trevor Kavanagh and entitled, “Journalism in the Dock, Sir Keir Starmer’s Baseless Prosecution of Tabloid Journalists as Director of Public Prosecutions”. The video of Monday’s FSU event, “Lifeblood of Democracy”, where we discussed the issues raised within the paper and Operation Elveden, will soon be available on our website.
‘That's Debatable!’  is edited by Jason Clift.